2011年4月18日
TOEIC
I discovered a new way to feel young today - just go to a sports club in Japan in the daytime! I went to my local sports club this afternoon, and I'm pretty sure that apart from a couple of the staff, I was the youngest person in the club. Japan's "silvers" are certainly a very active group!
As I mentioned last week, I recently started a ten-week course of French classes at a place called alliance francais in Nagoya. I have been meaning to go back to French (I studied it for five years in high school) for a while now, and I decided that now would be a good time to do it.
Part of my reason for doing it is that I want to have the experience of being a student again. When you become a language teacher, it is easy to forget how it feels to be a language learner, so I wanted to remind myself of that feeling. As a writer of books for learners of English, I think it is also useful for me to be able to look at textbooks from a learner's point of view.
Actually, learning French is easy compared to learning Japanese because it is so similar to English. Even if I don't know a word, I can often guess what it means by looking at the spelling. Luckily, my teacher speaks a bit of Japanese, so we can ask her questions about how to say things in French, and she can explain things that we don't understand. I often hear people say that it is better to learn in a classroom where only the target language is used. I disagree. It might be better for higher level students, but for beginners, it is definitely better to have a teacher who can speak your language. If the class had only been in French, I think I would have been very frustrated.
Being a language student again reminded me of something I noticed a long time ago but had not thought about recently. If you want to learn a foreign language, the most important thing is that you must like the sound of yourself speaking it. In other words, you must enjoy the experience of making the sounds and hearing them come from your mouth. If you feel like that, it is possible to motivate yourself to study hard enough to be successful.
Anyway, let's move on to this week's topic. I recently met a man who works for a big car company in Aichi. In this company, employees have to get a TOEIC score of 600 or over before they can be promoted. The man currently has a score of about 500, and I have volunteered to help him raise it to the necessary level. I have decided to do this because I know there are a lot of people in Aichi in his situation, and I am interested in finding the best way to teach them. He is a very smart guy, and I know that he will do everything I ask him to do, so he will be a good subject for research.
I should say straight away that I think Japanese companies' obsession with TOEIC is doing a lot of damage to English education in this country. I met a woman last month who studied English at university, and who has a TOEIC score of 850. She told me that although she used to love English, she hates it now because her company has decided that every employee has to raise their TOEIC score by 50 points. As I'm sure many of you know, it is very difficult to jump from 850 to 900, so she is having real problems. She said that the teacher who comes to their company just makes them answer as many questions as possible in ten minutes, and then checks their answers. It's just like an adult version of "juku"!
Anyway, the first thing I am going to do is to take the test. I think it will be much easier for me to help people if I have been through the whole process myself. I cannot do that immediately, however, so I was hoping that those of you who have taken TOEIC could tell me about your study methods. I would also be interested to hear what you all think of the test itself. I will pass your ideas on to my student if you write them in English, but please feel free to write in Japanese as well so that he can read them himself.
I have a suspicion that a lot of TOEIC teachers in Japan are concentrating too much on test strategies, and not enough on actually improving the students' English ability. The man I am teaching spends all his time memorizing words and phrases from a TOEIC book. If he doesn't hate English yet, I'm sure he will come to hate it in the very near future! That seems to be a very strange way of promoting English education within a company. I guess that the result is going to be the same as the "juken" system - lots of people who have high test scores, but who cannot use English for real communication.
Anyway, please let me know if you have any advice or ideas.
Bye for now.
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Comments
Hi David,
I've never taken the TOEIC test, so I can't give you any advice or share my study methods, but I'm very interested in what you think about the test after you take it and the result.
As you know, lots of English learners take the TOEIC test. I think it can be a great motivator to study, but I feel sorry for those people who have to take the test. I don't like to be forced to study. It's not fun at all.
I had a busy day today, and tomorrow is going to be the same because I have another meetings at my children's school. I'm going to bed now.
Good night,
Tomo
- Tomo
- 2011年4月18日 23:35
Hi David,
I have never taken TOEIC test, so I can’t give any good advice to him. I tried to study for it once, but I gave up soon, because it wasn’t interesting:-(
>Lots of people who have high test scores, but who cannot use English for real communication.
Yes, I think so too, my ex boss used to say “You can’t rely on TOEIC test scores.”
Good night and sweet dreams,
amo
- amo
- 2011年4月18日 23:38
Hi David & mates,
I've taken TOEIC test several times so I'd like to post some my comments.
For me, TOEIC is one of tools to keep my motivation of learning English. I am given a chance to take the test annually.
If I can get a better score every time, it must make me happy. However, it is not simple.
I have been learning English for several years, my last score was worse than the one in the year before the last, unfortunately.
I have to say sorry to the woman who has 850pts of the TOEIC test whom you mentioned, because I know how difficult for me to get a better score than 850pts is.
On the other hand, there are some English teachers in Japan whose have got perfect score and are good at telling some tips, or kind of strategies, to their students who want to get better scores.
I know there are pros and cons of TOEIC, but I suppose we have to admit the fact that TOEIC gives big effect to some people including some students and employees.
If you need further information about TOEIC, I'd like to ask you to read Mr. Hinata's blog on ALC's web-site.
See ya,
- Gussan
- 2011年4月19日 05:34
Hi Gussan,
Thanks for the tip about the blog. I agree with you that TOEIC might be useful for people who like English, but I cannot see the point in forcing people to take it, especially if the way to get higher scores is just to use "test strategies." There are much better tests than TOEIC (IELTS, for example) that include a speaking test.
- David
- 2011年4月19日 08:10
Hello Mr. Barker,
Thank you for leaving us the comment. It has been 25 years since Chernobyl disaster and your place is far away from there. I'm surprised to hear that there are still such restrictions on a lot of farmers on your mountains. I'm very sorry to hear about that.
Hi David and everyone,
Same as Tomo and amo, I've never taken the TOEIC test, so I can't give any advice, but some(or many?) of my friends have been taking the test.
>She said that the teacher who comes to their company just makes them answer as many questions as possible in ten minutes, and then checks their answers. It's just like an adult version of "juku"!
---→ I hear once you have a lapse of concentration, the result is hopeless.
Putting aside from you being 'for or against' the way he/she teaches, it seems to make sense for English learners to get higher scores.
>Gussan, thanks for the information.
Hi Rie,
Nice to have you with us. Looking forward to hearing from you when you have time.
The rain has stopped during the night and it's fine around here,Nagoya. Leaves and flowers are beautiful with morning dew.
Have a lovely day,
See you soon,
Anne
- Anne
- 2011年4月19日 08:23
Hi, David:)
Nice to meet you. Im Jun. Recently I found this blog and I've read this with interests.
This blog is so helpful and makes my English ability improve!! Thank you so much:D
As for TOEIC test, I may be able to give you some advices.
At first I want to stress that it is definitely deferent ways to raise TOEIC score from to improve English communication ability.
TOEIC is a test so there are several points to get good score: for instance, in order to check the vocablary, TOEIC test doesn't use the word which appeared in listening once in question sentences.(= Don't choose the answer which include the same word as in listening part!#
Of course, there are many common things between the two. However, if you want your students to raise TOEIC score as early as possible, it is the best way to follow these points.
Back the advice of TOIEC.
I mention to heariong session.
Japanese people are not good at hearing session inclusing me becouse we rarely listen to native English in our daily lives.
My methods about learning listening session is simple. I listen to the CD for TOIEC study, look at the script and read aloud following the CD#shadowing). We sometimes cannot catch the word we already knew so shadowing is good way to be able to do this:)
I really want to know that how you can listen to and speak Japanese so well!!
Good bye
Jun
- Jun
- 2011年4月19日 11:31
Hi, David and everyone.
I do not know much about it, but all I know is just TOEIC is for businessmen in Japan and is not so useful when you go abroad so my friend who's been in Dublin for 5 years and goes to uni there took TOEFL and also advised me to take TOEFL rather than TOEIC. However, TOEFL is very expensive and takes time, so I'm not going to take TOEFL at the moment.
Still my friend said me so, I'm slightly interested in taking TOEIC to see my English skill objectively because it's mush easier to take. So the blog Gussan mentioned is the very useful information for me to understand what's TOEIC like. Thank you, Gussan.
Last weekend, I found a interesting book about a man who's studied English all by himself after he had quit his job and gained full marks in TOEIC 25 times and still he is breaking his record. He said there is no way to improve our English at one go, and also tell us the attitude to studying English: we literally need to learn to communicate with people. The book motivates me to learn English. What makes me feel good in the book is that he said he sent a note of protest to "TIME" and "NewsWeek" many times to correct the articles that misunderstood Japan and finally he got lots of letters of thanks from them. Really nice!!!
The author is Takehiko Kikuchi, by the way.
momo
- momo
- 2011年4月19日 11:41
Hi David & mates,
I suppose you know TOEIC has the speaking & writung test. But generally speaking, when people say TOEIC, it means the usual TOEIC test, not the speaking & writing test.
I think the people who have to take the test as their requitement in their schools or companies are very pity.
It seems that many schools or companies in Japan misunderstand the style of TOEIC test.
As momo mentioned, it is easy for us to take TOEIC test in Japan.
If you who have never taken the test take it, you may usderstand how difficult to get full mark of the test, I mean 990pts, is.
I've never spoken to the people whose score are fullm ark in English. However, I think they are able to use English to some extent.
To improve my communication skill in English, I attend a few English circles.
See ya.
- Gussan
- 2011年4月19日 12:22
訂正；
＞The rain has stopped during the night and it's fine →The rain stopped during the night and the weather is fine.
>beautiful with morning dew.→beautiful covered with(in?) morning dew
Actually, it rained heavily and now we have a blue sky again.
- Anne
- 2011年4月19日 12:36
Hi Gussan,
I think TOEIC is probably useful for you because you are doing other things to improve your English as well. The problem for people like my student is that they are only studying for the test. Many of them do not really care whether their English improves or not as long as they can get the score their company says they need. It's a very strange situation! Actually, it's very similar to daigaku juken, which may be why it is so popular in Japan.
- David
- 2011年4月19日 12:46
Hi David and everyone,
I took TOEIC several times when I was a university student because I majored in American literature and it is said that getting high score on TOEIC will look good on my resume. However, I don’t think that high score is always directly linked to “usable” English skill. In fact, I was poor speaker of English even though I had a TOEIC score of 815 and I liked studying English for TOEIC test.
Next month, I’m going to take TOEIC for the first time in 5 years. This time, I don’t study any TOEIC対策本 that I used do because I want to know my “real” level of English. Instead of such study (Ex. memorizing words, reading long sentences), I try to have as many chances to speak English as possible so that I can improve my speaking skill.
Aki
- Aki
- 2011年4月19日 14:56
Hi David and everyone,
I’ve been taking TOEIC test regularly from 2 years ago, the same as the others, it’s one of the ways to motivate myself to keep learning English. Even so, I don’t have any ideas or advices on getting a higher score. Like the woman David mentioned, I wanted to raise my score by 50 points last year, but finally I realized that it’s not possible to reach the goal unless my English ability has really taken one or two steps forward.
Personally, I think "test strategies" works well at the beginning, especially when you are not familiar with the style of the test or when you don’t have a lot of experiences of taking the test, but when you are beyond this level, all you can do is to study much harder to improve your English skill totally.
As Gussan has said, TOEIC has a SW test (speaking and writing test) as well, the organization is trying to make it as popular as the normal TOEIC test (listening and reading test), though it doesn’t seem to be successful so far. I took a trial SW test (that’s free) last year but I didn’t like it. The test was ran with a computer, testee needed to listen to the questions and answer them through a headset. That made me uncomfortable because I was just talking to a computer, not a human being. The worst was that there were around 10 people taking the same test in the same room, I could hear other people and that really disturbed me, at the same time I worried that other people might hear me. I don’t think I will take the test unless the test environment is improved.
Hi Jun,
Nice to meet you and thank you for the tips.
>TOEIC test doesn't use the word which appeared in listening once in question sentences.
I’ve never noticed that. As you know, the time is so limited that it’s really hard to think or aware of any other things during the exam.
Hi momo,
Thanks for sharing Takehiko Kikuchi’s story, he’s got full marks 25 times in the exam! He must be a genius.
Hi Anne,
> Leaves and flowers are beautiful with morning dew.
I can imagine how beautiful they are.
It’s still raining heavily here, by the way. I miss the blue sky!
Hi Aki,
Yes, TOEIC score doesn’t mean everything, I think some companies take the score too serious and totally forget that language is just a kind of tool for communicating.
- Ling
- 2011年4月19日 16:04
Hello Mr Barker
Hello. Thank you for leaving your comment. I didn’t know that the accident of Chernobyl still effects on such a long distance area. People around Fukushima plant have to be away from their home yet. I really hope things get better and they will be free from fear, and animals too.
Hello David,
I am very interested in you started studying French. In your books, you often wrote about how you learned Japanese. Those stories were really interesting and encouraged me, because I was, still am, a learner of foreign language like you back then. I still remember you said “・・・だけだけつかうしかない！” I’d like to hear how your French study is going.
I learned one useful sentence from David’s entry. “I have been meaning to go back to French.” At first, I had no idea what the ”meaning” meant, then I looked up it in Eijiro. ずっと～しようと思ってた。This time I would say I have been meaning to take TOEIC for a long time.
See you!
taco
- taco
- 2011年4月19日 19:11
Hi Jun,
Nice to have you with us.
Thanks to all the other people for your comments. I am really interested to know how effective TOEIC strategies can be. Japanese students are very good at test strategies because of university entrance exams, but there is a kind of agreement between universities and high schools that universities will test the same kind of things as the high school teach. ETS, the company who run TOEIC, are aware of all the "strategies," and they try to make their tests in such a way that the strategies will not work. (If TOEIC becomes just a measure of test-taking ability, TOEIC will lose its popularity, so they are really worried about that.)
Anyway, it's really interesting for me to hear about your experiences.
PS Hi taco,
"I've been meaning to take the TOEIC test for a long time" is an excellent sentence.
- David
- 2011年4月19日 23:19
Hello, David and minasan.
I also have been taking TOEIC, TOEFL, and Eiken before.
They were one of my habits at that time and because of the habits I had a good daily routine of studying English. Even I had a dream(involved English), sometimes I took a dislike to English, but I knew that I couldn't reach my goal without sacrifices.
So I often forced myself to read English quickly and sat me down in front of my desk.
For me, those tests were one of my tribute of efforts.
When my friend worked a travel company, she also needed to get at least Eiken 準1級 at that time.
It was one of requirements to work the company.
She(my friend) couldn't use English for real communication 100%, but she had a lot of "引き出し" inside her heart. So we could communicate imperfect English. Also Eiken 準1級 ability was useful for her at the company.
David mentioned,
"The problem for people like my student is that they are only studying for the test. Many of them do not really care whether their English improves or not as long as they can get the score their company says they need."
I met people who only take care about their grades in my college. Even we've already learned about something important, but it seems we've already forgotten about something important.
It makes me really sad.
Some people tend to concentrate only their result and business numbers, I understand they are very important, but I think it is not a good idea.
Because looking "only result" is a dangerous view sometimes. Also, ”目的と手段が入れ替わる” is ”本末転倒”。
I will have to take final exams in 2 weeks in my college, so I can't join here often, but I am looking forward to reading this blog from now on too.
I like David's comment "a language learner, so I wanted to remind myself of that feeling,"
Please have peaceful days. See you!
- Animal Farm
- 2011年4月20日 06:09
Hi David and everyone,
I'm interested in this week's topic. I want to know the tips, if there are any, to get higher score at TOEIC test. I took TOEIC test just once and am planning to take it again, hopefully will get better score. I studied by myself using woorkbooks (問題集）. When I was doing tests of the past (過去問）or 予想問題、I tried to do them in a real situation: set the same time as TOEIC test, not allow to rewind CD. I think it's a good way to get used to the real one because I could know how fast I have to solve each question.
I don't think the content of the test is boring. Although there are better tests to know testee's language skills. TOEIC test is made from the point of view of everyday situation of English speaking countries. So articles on the test are like an announcement of flight, some manuals of products. They are useful when I have chances to encounter those situations. One thing we have to keep in our mind is that there are so many questions, so we have to solve each question quickly. If you don't know the answer of one question, you should pick one answer from multiple choices and go on to the next one.
As you may know, there are two sections: reading and listening sections. English are spoken not only in American English but also British English, Australian English... Thus we have to get used to each pronunciations.
It may apply to other language studies "There is no royal road to learning." We have to study one by one. We have to build up our basic skill: vocabulary, gramatical rules, idioms and pronunciations. It's impossible to catch words which we don't know. Of course joining this blog is one of the good way to improve our English!
I can't deny that too much stress is putted on TOEIC score in Japan - only score matters. It's sad that people only study to get requirement scores.
Hi David,
Good luck with French study.
Fumie
- Fumie
- 2011年4月20日 09:23
Hello Mr.Barker
Thank you for joining us.
You have wonderful son. He is generous, kind...
Thanks to his help my English is improving little by little. I'm sorry to hear that Chernobyl Accident is still affecting the life of your area. Now Japan is facing the similar problem. I hope the world will have alternative safer energies not to have same mistakes again.
Fumie
- Fumie
- 2011年4月20日 09:36
Hi David and everyone
I have been thinking about to take TOEIC test.
because I have never taken it before.It might be a very difficult for me with my English.(私の英語力では）but its a good practice.
I think TOEIC is good for companies. When they hire workers, they can know your English level very easily. Even if you could speak or not. It is just a 目安. so I think it doesn't mean you can speak English even if your test score is high.
I went to the festival near my apartment last Sunday. It was a Ceramic festval. where I'm living is famouse for Ceramic. I bought some nice small bowls(小皿). I had really fun time!
Hi Tomo and Anne!
Thank you for the comments.
My English is not really good so I need a lot of time to understand evryone's comments and writtings. but 頑張ります!!
- 匿名
- 2011年4月20日 22:08
sorry I forgot to put my name bottom of my comment.
Rie
- 匿名
- 2011年4月20日 22:12
Hi everyone,
I'm afraid to say that today's my post doesn't have any relations to TOEIC.
However, I'd like ask you to see this project.
復興の狼煙 ポスタープロジェクト
//fukkou-noroshi.jp/
(Put 'http:' before the '//' and search, please.)
I cannot stop tears.
- Gussan
- 2011年4月21日 06:03
Pleased to meet you, Howard, and Mr. Baker!
It's amazing, so amazing for welcoming you two!
Now, for getting high scores on TOEIC, I have no idea without taking the test actually! I've not taken it yet, as some people here. But I'm interested in trying it.
I heard you need to practise drills and exercises for getting high and raising scores, again and again. So, I want to see I'm trying TOEIC once without them. For me, It might be very difficult! (Ha-ha)
Good luck, David! And see you!
- Chiki
- 2011年4月21日 14:04
Hello David and everyone!
I`m Murun and this is my first visit to this web site.
I`m learning english by myself and so glad that I found this great topics and everyone`s opinions in English. Reading all of what you`ve written here is not just interesting, but it is also help me shape up my English as well.
It takes long time to write here for me. So that was just for today. Thank you.
- 匿名
- 2011年4月22日 00:02
Hi Murun,
Glad to have you with us.
- David
- 2011年4月22日 00:10
Hi Jun and Murun,
Welcome to the blog! Look forward hearing from you again.
Hi Ling,
Thanks for letting us know about the SW test. I knew they have a speaking and a writing test as well, but I didn't know that you have to speak to a computer! I would feel the same way as you if I took the test. I prefer talking to a human.
Hi everyone,
I don't know much about the TOEIC test, so it was very interesting to read your comments. I think the test can be useful If you take it on your own will and if you study not only for the tests but also for your English.
See you soon,
Tomo
PS Gussan - Those pictures made me cry, too. Thanks for sharing.
- Tomo
- 2011年4月22日 07:59
Happy birthday Maki! Hope you have a great day.
- David
- 2011年4月22日 09:32
☆Happy Birthday Maki!☆ Many happy returns!
- Tomo
- 2011年4月22日 09:44
★Happy Birthday Maki!★ Best wishes for a happy birthday.
- Fumie
- 2011年4月22日 10:19
I’ve recently started a web site, the information you offer on this website has helped me greatly. Thank you for all of your time & work.
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- 2011年10月30日 06:49
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- 2011年11月16日 12:13
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- 2011年12月12日 19:18
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- 2011年12月12日 22:16
Hi David and everyone,
I found David's father's comment on the entry "Amakudari (Feedback)", so let me post it here.
『I am David s father.I live in North Wales about 25kms west of Chester,which some of you will have visited when in the UK.The area s main income is from Tourism,Farming & Forestry.We are about 2200 kms from Chernobyl.Almost 25 years ago we had a day of heavy rain from clouds carrying radio-active dust from Russia.today well over 100 farms on our mountains still have restrictions on the movement of animals.These are to make sure that nothing gets into the food chain unless it meets EU regulations.Some of these farms are only an hours drive from our home. I know the World must have renewable energy,but I find it very scary that a nuclear disaster all those kms away can still effect us quarter of a century later!
bill2011年04月18日 00:50』
Hello Mr. Barker,
Thank you for joining us. I'm very sorry to hear that so many farms on your mountains are still affected by radioactivity from the Chernobyl disaster. The risks of nuclear power are too high and not worth taking. I hope it will be banned.
I'll write about the topic later,
Tomo